Reloading RST shells

[brmaher27]

Hello All,

I have a couple hundred fired RST 12 gauge 2 1/2" hulls. I would like to reload them but I have struggled to find documented load information for the (apparently Cheddite) hulls in this length. I am wondering if anyone knows of a reloading manual that includes data for this hull or has a recipe that they use with some sort of documentation. I emailed ballistic products to ask if they offer a manual with this data but have not heard back from them yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[Woody]

I received This data from a fellow member that he had tested. 5500-6000 psi

3/4 oz shot
14.3 ga. Alliant Extra Lite
CB 6100 wad
Win primer
RST hull

I use Cheddite primers with good results.

[jolly bill]

brmahar27,

I use a MEC Sizemaster reloader using that recipe above for the 2 1/2" RST hulls that Woody suggests.

On the Sizemaster that I use for 2 3/4" hulls, the first 3 stations can easily accommodate the 2 1/2" hulls with no changes: #1 - deprime and size; #2 - prime and #3 for powder drop, wad insertion and shot drop. You may have to adjust the drop tube a little lower tho to seat the wad.

For station #4 - crimp start and 5 - final crimp, I use a 1/4" thick spacer at those stations to raise the hull for those operations as pictured below.

Works good for me. If you want any more detail, send me a PM and we can work it out there.

Good luck. Those shorter shells look kinda neat on the skeet and clay's course.

Jolly

[brmaher27]

Woody,

How do the 3/4 oz loads do on game and clays? I've typically used 1 oz so I'm curious how much of a difference the reduction in shot volume makes? I typically shoot clays with family using a trailer hitch thrower so not crazy distance. I'd imagine up close it doesn't matter too much.

[Woody]

This recipe came from Jolly Bill. It works great on clays. Bill loads it as a 1/2oz load. That works fine too. He breaks a lot of clays with that load. Never used it on game but it would work good I’m sure. I have loaded it with 7/8 oz with enough room in the hull.

As Bill does I load on a single stage press. A MEC 600. I have one for 12 and 16 ga set up with the short shell kit from MEC. Works the same as Bill showed just is a steel plate.

[Silvers]

This recipe came from Jolly Bill. It works great on clays. Bill loads it as a 1/2oz load. That works fine too. He breaks a lot of clays with that load. Never used it on game but it would work good I’m sure. I have loaded it with 7/8 oz with enough room in the hull.......

Huh? A 1/2 ounce load might work as well on game as a 2-1/2" 410. And the 3/4 ounce load about as well as a 3-inch 410 or light 28-gauge load. That's if the velocity is about the same as both of those regular hunting shells cited. And if velocity is less they wouldn't be as effective respectively. The velocity isn't shown in the postings here for either load.

With powderpuff loads the gun will go "bang" and they'll break clays if the shooter is on. But trying to use either on game outside of light 410 or 28-gauge scope isn't fair to game that's only wounded and will die a lingering death. "Use enough gun" and load.

frank

[jolly bill]

This recipe came from Jolly Bill. It works great on clays. Bill loads it as a 1/2oz load. That works fine too. He breaks a lot of clays with that load. Never used it on game but it would work good I’m sure. I have loaded it with 7/8 oz with enough room in the hull.......

Huh? A 1/2 ounce load might work as well on game as a 2-1/2" 410. And the 3/4 ounce load about as well as a 3-inch 410 or light 28-gauge load. That's if the velocity is about the same as both of those regular hunting shells cited. And if velocity is less they wouldn't be as effective respectively. The velocity isn't shown in the postings here for either load.

With powderpuff loads the gun will go "bang" and they'll break clays if the shooter is on. But trying to use either on game outside of light 410 or 28-gauge scope isn't fair to game that's only wounded and will die a lingering death. "Use enough gun" and load.

frank

All good things to consider and discuss.

Those 3/4 ounce loads that Woody provided the recipe for is quite similar to the one found in the reloading data that comes with Claybuster CB-0175-12 wads.
Specifically using those CB-0175-12 wads for 3/4 ounce lead shot, 14.5 grains of Alliant Extra Lite powder in a Winchester AA-HS hull with Winchester 209 primers yields 1225 fps and 6900 psi.
Using the same as above but Remington STS hull and a Remington 209 powder will get you 1200 fps at 6300 psi.

I sent some of my 1/2 ounce lead loads for testing to Tom Armbrust, Ballistic Research in March of 2015 with these results.

1/2 ounce of #8 lead shot, 14.0 grains of Alliant Extra Lite powder, CB-0175-12 wad with a 0.135" thick cardboard wad in the bottom, Rem STS hull, Rem 209 primer came out with an average speed of 1343 fps and an average pressure of 4766 psi.
Same thing but using a Win AA-HS hull and Win 209 primer got an average of 1367 fps and an average pressure of 5100 psi.

Another factor which might be significant is the shape of the shot charge. I believe a 1/2 ounce load from a .410 is somewhat long and narrow. With 1/2 ounce in a 12 gauge, I suspect that the shot string is shorter and maybe a little denser, and if so, an advantage?

They do work, I enjoy shooting them, and as all of know, if you hit the target, they break. If ya don't, they won't. (Murphy's 2nd Law.)

Hope this helps and certainly, use good judgement when hunting game. Have enough gun and shot.

Jolly

[Silvers]

Thanks Bill, those velocities are on par for hunting but again imo the light shot charge relegates them to clays shooting and hunting where we'd normally use 410 and 28 gauge guns with their lighter loads. Hunting with 1/2 to 3/4 ounce loads in a big bore 12-gauge? Let's not forget that old-time pigeon shooters of great experience and where serious money was on the line, preferred the opposite, i.e., smaller bores and the resultant longer shot string. I wonder what the shot string measures with 1/2 or even 3/4 ounce in a 12-gauge?

frank

[Mike of the Mountain]

I load plenty of 2 1/2" 12g shells. All RST reloads. I use 17.1g PB powder (I have at least 70 lbs and no I'm not selling any!), 1/8" nitro card, BP 12g Short Shell Wad, 1 oz shot.
Spreaders I load 17.1 PB, SSW12 wad, X-stream insert (they work from 10g down to 20g), 1 oz shot, 12g overshot card. They break clays and kill birds. All loaded on a MEC with a short shell kit.

Many guys have switched over to Green Dot, IMR 7625 or International Clays when their supplies of PB ran out. Too bad they gave up on PB, it was a great powder for our vintage shotguns and for running handguns.

Get yourselk a Ballistic Products loading manual. THOUSANDS of recipes.

[scaupman]

MEC does make a short kit for their 600JR, Sizemaster, or Steelmaster reloaders:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-S ... o/1308849/


And Precision Reloading has individual spacers that would work too (Note the 3" to 2 3/4" spacer would work for going from 2 3/4" to 2 1/2"):

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!c=346

[Mike of the Mountain]

MEC does make a short kit for their 600JR, Sizemaster, or Steelmaster reloaders:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-S ... o/1308849/


And Precision Reloading has individual spacers that would work too (Note the 3" to 2 3/4" spacer would work for going from 2 3/4" to 2 1/2"):

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!c=346

Cheap and easy to install. I have the short kits on MEC presses for my 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28g guns. My .410 MEC is set up for 3". Any 2 3/4" 12,20,28 or 2 1/2" .410 get made on a Spolar. Paper 12g black powder are done on a Lee Load-All and brass hulls are done by a hand unit from Rocky Mountain Cartridge.

[Woody]

This recipe came from Jolly Bill. It works great on clays. Bill loads it as a 1/2oz load. That works fine too. He breaks a lot of clays with that load. Never used it on game but it would work good I’m sure. I have loaded it with 7/8 oz with enough room in the hull.......

Huh? A 1/2 ounce load might work as well on game as a 2-1/2" 410. And the 3/4 ounce load about as well as a 3-inch 410 or light 28-gauge load. That's if the velocity is about the same as both of those regular hunting shells cited. And if velocity is less they wouldn't be as effective respectively. The velocity isn't shown in the postings here for either load.

With powderpuff loads the gun will go "bang" and they'll break clays if the shooter is on. But trying to use either on game outside of light 410 or 28-gauge scope isn't fair to game that's only wounded and will die a lingering death. "Use enough gun" and load.

frank

I wasnt Implying that the 1/2 oz load would be good for game. I was thinking the original load I mentioned The 3/4 oz load when I mentioned use on game. I would think it would work anywhere some one would use a 28 ga. I’ve shot plenty of grouse and rabbits with a 28 ga. and I would think it would be fine for quail. Ive only shot pen raised quail myself. So no experience shooting wild quail. I consider the .410 a clays gun not a game gun. But that’s my opinion n I’m sure spot would despute.

[jolly bill]

Thanks Bill, those velocities are on par for hunting but again imo the light shot charge relegates them to clays shooting and hunting where we'd normally use 410 and 28 gauge guns with their lighter loads. Hunting with 1/2 to 3/4 ounce loads in a big bore 12-gauge? Let's not forget that old-time pigeon shooters of great experience and where serious money was on the line, preferred the opposite, i.e., smaller bores and the resultant longer shot string. I wonder what the shot string measures with 1/2 or even 3/4 ounce in a 12-gauge?

frank

Hi Frank,
I am definitely not recommending these loads for hunting except, where you point out, where a .410 or 28 gauge would be suitable. And I suspect they would work quite well with that extra speed compared to factory loads with speeds around 1200/1250 fps. As in energy varies by the square of the velocity.

And yes, great target loads, at least for me. If the clay bird breaks, that's great and I think that = "X". No additional X's if the bird turns to smoke. Like in Skeet Station 8, a half ounce is plenty.

I would like to offer this story that occurred at Iron Mike's course several years ago. A woman wanted to shoot the course with her friends but for her score to count, she had to use a double, her husband's/friend Parker. She normally shot a 12 gauge auto loader with standard target loads so the recoil was tolerable. She didn't like the thought of using the Parker with those loads.

I offered her a box of my 1/2 ounce loads for those closer shots in the right barrel and 3/4 ounce for the longer shots in the left barrel. She took me up on it and when I seen her after shooting the course, I was rewarded with a very nice hug and Thank You. She was very pleased. How many hugs did you guys get? And I don't mean from your shooting buddies either.

End of story.

Yes, I wonder too what that shot string would look like? For a shot straight away, probably no effective difference. For a crossing shot, that longer shot string might help if you're not right on.

Scaupman, those spacers from Ballistic Products that you provide the link for look pretty neat. Maybe better, easier than the MEC short kit which I haven't tried. I pretty much use my home built version for those 2 1/2" hulls. I have one just about like it for loading 20 gauge 2 1/2 inchers.

I don't hunt anymore. I fondly remember those last couple grouse hunts with my good friend from around Allentown PA who has a couple nice Fox's and a great dog. I don't think we shot anything but it sure was enjoyable. He was planning on some quail hunting towards the end of this past January but a couple weeks before the hunt, he dropped a car battery on his foot. Trip cancelled unfortunately. Don't ask him for help moving batteries. He curses a lot!

Yep, great target loads for me. So I don't break 'em all. Who does? For me, it's more of a social thing and that's good enough.

Respectfully, all good fun.

Jolly

[Woody]

Bill well said. You break them very good with you loads and when I’ve shot your gun worked good for me too. Especially with the XE the way it’s choked. I’m the same as you,no need to beat yourself up. Plus it’s a social thing for me too. Most people put too much into shot charge and chokes. If I want to shoot for score I will shoot my Beretta gun that’s tubed for skeet.

[Silvers]

1/2 and 3/4 ounce loadings in 12-gauge must get the "square load" gents into fits and howling at the moon.

You know, the savants who attribute ballistic perfection and even magical qualities to loads where the width of the shot column is about the same as its height. 3/4 ounce in 28-gauge is one of their darlings, same with 1 ounce in 16-gauge.

frank